Cleaner interface, please!

M@dcow · Post by **M@dcow** » Mon Jun 21, 2004 2:52 pm

Finally, I have found an old copy of tuhopuu on my hard-drive -- I've been looking for it for ages. What this means is that I can highlight something that has been bugging me for quite a while, namely the look and feel of the blender interface.

I think it looks fairly messy, and in my opinion that is mainly down to the button drawtypes we are stuck with. The default type is plain ugly (again, just my opinion

), Rounded is nice but incomplete, and there are various little unfinished elements that make the interface seem slightly amateurish. This would not bother me that much had it not been for the fact that someone went to a lot of effort to code in some uber cool buttons ages ago. These not only looked a lot cleaner but also had the benefit of working with darker interfaces as well. This image should highlight what I mean:

Now, am I the only one who thinks that this looks a lot nicer than what we currently have?

Since the work has already been done, why have they not made it to bf-blender?

anyone else agree that the handles on the sliders look better like this?

What about the triangle on the right hand side of the drop down menus? I think this looks better than the little double arrow thing we have now, and unlike the double arrows it doesn't disappear into oblivion when you make the buttons dark colours.

Discuss.

kid_tripod · Post by **kid_tripod** » Mon Jun 21, 2004 3:00 pm

I like it how it is now. The widget style that is, the exact positioning of particular buttons in panels still needs some evolving.

I don't get this obsession with dark interfaces. Neither Maya or XSI have dark GUIs, and it doesn't exactly hamper their users.

M@dcow · Post by **M@dcow** » Mon Jun 21, 2004 3:03 pm

kid_tripod wrote:I like it how it is now. The widget style that is, the exact positioning of particular buttons in panels still needs some evolving.

I don't get this obsession with dark interfaces. Neither Maya or XSI have dark GUIs, and it doesn't exactly hamper their users.

Ok, if you like it as it is then you can leave it be, not so?

The point I'm trying to make is that the work has already been done, so I'd love to see it put in -- I'm trying to see how many people agree with me here.

kid_tripod · Post by **kid_tripod** » Mon Jun 21, 2004 3:07 pm

I meant I like the changes that came in with 2.3 (I think it was). It's much cleaner with the way it is now than any of the tuhopuu ones were.

Just because something has been done doesn't mean it should go into what is the core release of the Blender Foundation. Personally I'd rather efforts are focussed on usability, stability and functionality over whether or not it looks nice, especially now it looks "nice enough".

M@dcow · Post by **M@dcow** » Mon Jun 21, 2004 3:12 pm

kid_tripod wrote:I meant I like the changes that came in with 2.3 (I think it was). It's much cleaner with the way it is now than any of the tuhopuu ones were.

Just because something has been done doesn't mean it should go into what is the core release of the Blender Foundation. Personally I'd rather efforts are focussed on usability, stability and functionality over whether or not it looks nice, especially now it looks "nice enough".

I think you may be misunderstanding me. Im not suggesting getting rid of the floating panels etc....

All Im suggesting is adding these button draw types to the ones that are currently there Ie: Minimal, Rounded, Shaded and so on.

This is not a request to go back to an older interface!

M@dcow · Post by **M@dcow** » Mon Jun 21, 2004 3:15 pm

Oh, and why settle for "nice enough" when you can have gorgeous?

kid_tripod · Post by **kid_tripod** » Mon Jun 21, 2004 3:19 pm

Because they're not gorgeous. They're overdone. Subtlety is the key.

The current one is gorgeous by comparison with any of those screenshots you show.

M@dcow · Post by **M@dcow** » Mon Jun 21, 2004 3:35 pm

you mean this?

I find the buttons (only the buttons, mind

) quite repulsive by comparison

kid_tripod wrote: Because they're not gorgeous. They're overdone. Subtlety is the key.

No, the option to be able to customise the GUI is the key -- that is the whole point of "User preferences" and "Themes". Or am I missing something here?

Like I said before, you like the default interface, Fine. I don't. I guess all I'm asking is for one of the kindly coders to put these in at some point in time. After all, the GUI is still unfinished so I assume someone would be working on it again sooner or later anyway, and the code must still be floating around somewhere.....

Just out of curiosity, who did this in the first place? Something tells me that it was Madprof but I could be wrong..

kid_tripod · Post by **kid_tripod** » Mon Jun 21, 2004 3:42 pm

Ironically, given the topic heading, that looks miles cleaner than any of the supposed alternatives.

M@dcow · Post by **M@dcow** » Mon Jun 21, 2004 3:58 pm

Kinda hard to judge that when you haven't seen them in the context of the new interface, wouldn't you say?

Im making a mockup now.

kid_tripod · Post by **kid_tripod** » Mon Jun 21, 2004 4:06 pm

No. The gratuitous over contrasty graduated fills kind of give the fact that it's going to look a right mess straight away. Like WinXP.

M@dcow · Post by **M@dcow** » Mon Jun 21, 2004 4:15 pm

kid_tripod wrote:No. The gratuitous over contrasty graduated fills kind of give the fact that it's going to look a right mess straight away. Like WinXP.

Enough said really, that sentence proved my point

Tell you what, lets go back to commodore 64 interfaces shall we?

Im moving this discussion over to the coders now, it's obvious we will never agree

kid_tripod · Post by **kid_tripod** » Mon Jun 21, 2004 4:27 pm

M@dcow wrote: it's obvious we will never agree

Yes, because the basis of your point is flawed! Just because you can have stupid button styles like that doesn't make them good.

When thick plastic rimmed glasses became possible they became fashionable, now no one wears them. It's all about thin metal strips. The same will happen with UIs. If you had that style of button now, in 18 months time it'll be "let's make buttons that are flat! wouldn't that be mad???"

The thing with UIs is there should be as little of them as possible, whilst still being optimally usable. They shouldn't be a distraction in and of themselves.

This comes from an OS X user/lover, but I'll freely admit a large amount of the effects are utterly unnecessary. It's hilarious how large groups of the computer industry simply try to copy all the effects without realising it's the simplicity of the layouts and the quality of the text rendering that make it so good, not the fact the button is shiny, which when you're doing graphics work is actually a bit irritating.

M@dcow · Post by **M@dcow** » Mon Jun 21, 2004 5:32 pm

kid_tripod wrote:
Yes, because the basis of your point is flawed! Just because you can have stupid button styles like that doesn't make them good.

Firstly, I have no idea why you have an issue with having a choice about which style you use. As for the flawed logic, we will come to that in a minute.

kid_tripod wrote: The thing with UIs is there should be as little of them as possible, whilst still being optimally usable. They shouldn't be a distraction in and of themselves.

So, the long and short of it is that the simpler the buttontype the better eh? Let me put this to you: The default "shaded" buttontype has a gradient and an outline whilst the tuhopuu buttontype has a simple gradient and nothing more (In the top example at least). I was going to make a intricate example of a complete button window, but time is running against me, so I'll post this simple one instead:

(No fancy colours, just a direct comparison)

You still want to compare these buttons to thick plastic rimmed glasses?

The tuhopuu buttons look cleaner and more professional, as I've said from the very start.

Now, I'll repeat once again, I have no problem with you liking a different style of interface to me, but don't say my logic is flawed when it clearly is not

Considering the coding is already done, give me one good reason these shouldn't be included. "Because I think it's stupid" doesn't count.

theeth · Post by **theeth** » Mon Jun 21, 2004 5:39 pm

Just for the sake of clarity, can you make the above comparaison with the same color scheme?

I do agree that the thicker handles for sliders looks better though.

Martin