REQ:SubSurf Creases as Smoothing groups +sexy new example :)

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Monkeyboi
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Post by Monkeyboi »

Isn't that what setting the creases already does- sets the smoothness per edge (albeit on SubSurfs)? And please explain why you say my method is illogical. Thanks.
The subsurf crease value has to do with the sharpness of mesh edges when using blenders SubSurf option. The current SetSmooth and SetSolid buttons do exactly what you want although you can only set this attribute to faces, not edges. Making it work per edge is really, as far as I can see, what you and I want. I'd just prefer if there weren't too many obscure ways of doing things, that's all.

dmao
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Post by dmao »

I might be beating a dead horse here, but I still fail to see your point. It'd be redundant (and confusing!) to add more ways to make edges when creases are the same in concept. Do you also disagree with showing a preview of the creases when subsurf is off?

In any case, how do you suggest the feature be implemented? :wink:

Monkeyboi
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Post by Monkeyboi »

dmao wrote:I might be beating a dead horse here, but I still fail to see your point. It'd be redundant (and confusing!) to add more ways to make edges when creases are the same in concept.
I do not agree that it is the same concept. That's the whole point.

[quote"dmao"]Do you also disagree with showing a preview of the creases when subsurf is off? [/quote]

No, and AFAIK it's already possible. (Draw Creases)
dmao wrote:In any case, how do you suggest the feature be implemented?
Like I already said, I think it would be much more logical to expand the SetSolid and SetSmooth to work per edge, not per face. Why? The SetSmooth function takes the faces, and, without subdividing or manipulatig the mesh, it smoothes out the border between faces.

The Subsurf Crease feature has nothing to do with smoothing out faces in this respect. What Subsurf Crease does is it manipulates the mesh when in subsurf mode to easier create certain shapes which have shaper falloff.

Now what we are requesting is a way to have a completely smoothed object with certain edges still sharp (as in the car example). So logically, one would select the object in question, click SetSmooth, then go to Edit Mode, select the edges you want to be sharp, click SetSolid, and there you go.

A second point is that this way it could be compatible with SubSurf objects too. If we use the Subsurf Crease feature, it would mean you couldn't set crease- and hardness values independantly if your object is a SubSurf.

dmao
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Post by dmao »

Monkeyboi wrote:No, and AFAIK it's already possible. (Draw Creases)
Nope. Draw Creases only draws creased edges in a different color (not showing the resulting smoothness) and only in editmode. Also, your method (set smooth/solid) would only allow totally sharp or totally smooth edges.
Monkeyboi wrote:A second point is that this way it could be compatible with SubSurf objects too. If we use the Subsurf Crease feature, it would mean you couldn't set crease- and hardness values independantly if your object is a SubSurf.
As I said earlier that's the only real caveat, though it's not much of a drawback. In any event, my goal was to call attention to the subject in light of Blender's new edge structure, not to prove my method to be the best. That's done, so I'll put the issue to rest.

Monkeyboi
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Post by Monkeyboi »

dmao wrote:
Monkeyboi wrote:No, and AFAIK it's already possible. (Draw Creases)
Nope. Draw Creases only draws creased edges in a different color (not showing the resulting smoothness) and only in editmode. Also, your method (set smooth/solid) would only allow totally sharp or totally smooth edges.
..Which are the only two situations the renderer can handle anyway.
dmao wrote:In any event, my goal was to call attention to the subject in light of Blender's new edge structure, not to prove my method to be the best. That's done, so I'll put the issue to rest.
Yes, I agree this is a very important feature that is very badly missing and the absense of it makes life hard when trying to create certain objects with sharp and smooth edges.

bmud
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Post by bmud »

Genious. Autosmooth can't touch that. Genious... GENIOUS! =D Thank goodness for creases. I'm going to love them so much.

[edit] Now that I've gotten a good feel for what you were talking about, I was excited for a little while that faces selected in UV/Face mode would be translated to faces in Edit mode, it was cool to see that it's possible to group areas of smooth faces and areas of solid faces in the same mesh, but it's impossible to have two smooth sections be interpreted independently -- which is what smoothing groups are (my reference being 3d studio max). But I also noticed that you found a way to have a crease at the top of the back of the car's trunk area, while the same smooth area wrapped around the sides. That's not something I can see as possible unless smoothing groups were defined simply with the creases. And it makes sense to use them, and furthermore, to the advantage of a designer, I see it would be capable of achieving some things that are impossible in other systems. [/edit]

RAMBOusek
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Found

Post by RAMBOusek »

i found this
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=209156
i think this is what you searched for

-efbie-
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Post by -efbie- »

advice from a guy who is the artistical director of FarCry and works on several PS2 games :
For game creation : hard edges, and manual vertex normal control is absolutely necessary.

Pierre-Luc_Auclair
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Post by Pierre-Luc_Auclair »

This would be a great asset to show at GDC2k5 too.

Normal editing and hard edges is really a "must be done" feature. Plus if the UV mapping tool continue to be improved as they are now, I don't see a reason why it couldn't be used in production environment.

bmud
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Post by bmud »

*BUMP*
It's been a while, but I think this topc is still really important.
This semester, I'm starting to learn how to use maya. And, I'm sorry to anyone that actually likes that program, but you must have tater tots for brains.. Anyway... Editing normals is really hard to do. Either you pick up the normal like a rod, and turn it with the rotate sphere manually, or you use "merge normals" deep inside context menus to smooth a corner. It's a beneficial feature, sure, but their implimentation is awful.

Adding some improved normal control, as aforementioned, stored in the same way as vertex paint, would be fantastic. The method by which it is implimented on the user's end really doesn't matter. I think we should try running a starter proposal towards the tohopuu guys if they aren't already planning on adding it. Or we'll start up another project like was done for N-GONs.

My personal preference towards re-using the hard & smooth buttons, or using the creases, really doesn't matter to me. But the code for vertex paint is out there in the source, and it perfectly reflects "smoothing groups". It's simply a matter of wrapping our brains around it.

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