new EDIT-mode

The interface, modeling, 3d editing tools, import/export, feature requests, etc

Moderators: jesterKing, stiv

solmax
Posts: 86
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2002 2:47 am
Contact:

Post by solmax »

i know what you're talking abt - but this shouldn't be hard to find out. the developers should know :). maybe this is something that should be respected when using the localized interface.

MNME
Posts: 0
Joined: Fri Nov 15, 2002 5:04 am
Location: England

Post by MNME »

dependant on which board mapping im using show all layers is eithor to the left of 1 or 2 to the right of L ... so its probably the symbol....

but.... ya cant have that key anyway... some of us use it all the time,

for a single key, \ (left of Z) is the first free key over that side of the KB (for QWERTY) other than (maybe) a letter key, but... i dont think right for a letter myself, certainly nothing apropreate free and close..

my vote is still ctrl tab

solmax
Posts: 86
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2002 2:47 am
Contact:

Post by solmax »

arrg... during this debate i kind of got used to the hand-breaking ctrl-tab-1,2 or 3. still i think this debate is of strange nature, it's like a fight for the last ressources on the keyboard. i hope the developers find time to implement user definable shortcuts and menus (like press "n" gives you a menu with 5 entries which are also defined by you). then everyone will do it the way he likes, without arguing and trying to convince ppl who would never agree (because they like it the other way).

so my vote is: free the keys!!!

Bellorum
Posts: 0
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2004 3:27 pm

Post by Bellorum »

arrg... during this debate i kind of got used to the hand-breaking ctrl-tab-1,2 or 3.
I know, I have too;) I think that was Ton's plan, to break us down until we couldn't do it any other way :twisted:
There's no such thing as democracy. There's only the tyranny of one, and the tyranny of many.

joeri
Posts: 96
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2003 6:41 pm
Contact:

Post by joeri »

I agree that [/] & [?] are to far away from [tab]

But I still think that different keys are the best option. I don't care if it's not practicle. These are the most used keys on modeling.

I don't want to wait on the visual feedback to know what mode I'm in.
That rules out a menu, and also rules out the [Tab] in/out edit, [some key] flip truw edit modes. although...(

I used the mode toggling alot at NaN between the paint modes for making games. It was hell.
Maybe it's less hell in edit modes because there is better visual feedback.

If there is a 'free' key to suggest I would say the [Q]. Really, why a key to quit? Is that a thing we use that often?

) ... if [Tab] goes back to previous set edit mode then I would know what mode it would go to. Then I would suggest [1] [2] [3] for the different edit modes. The layer flipping when in editmode is stuppid anyway.

Kenden
Posts: 0
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 4:11 pm

Post by Kenden »

If there is a 'free' key to suggest I would say the [Q]. Really, why a key to quit? Is that a thing we use that often?

...if [Tab] goes back to previous set edit mode then I would know what mode it would go to. Then I would suggest [1] [2] [3] for the different edit modes. The layer flipping when in editmode is stuppid anyway.
Good points, I like both:
- Q to cycle.
or
- 1/2/3 in edit mode to go to vertex/edge/face edit

Now, having 1 2 3 behave differently in or out edit mode won't make Blender easier to learn...

Personnaly, the more I use Ctrl-Tab-1/2/3, the more I find it painful.
Three keys to press when you could have just one...
Logic-wise, it's good, workflow-wise, not.


cheers,
kenden

Bellorum
Posts: 0
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2004 3:27 pm

Post by Bellorum »

Then I would suggest [1] [2] [3] for the different edit modes. The layer flipping when in editmode is stuppid anyway.
That works for me. Haven't even thought about what those keys do in edit-mode, and I really don't see the need to flip layers in edit-mode.
There's no such thing as democracy. There's only the tyranny of one, and the tyranny of many.

joeri
Posts: 96
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2003 6:41 pm
Contact:

Post by joeri »

Oops, the laptop users might not like that...
But... I always thought [1]-[3]-[7] on a laptop for front-side-top was not very intuitive.
So,... hmm,... tja,... [7]-[8]-[9]-[0] for F-S-T-C if in laptop mode? (and [5] or [6] for perspective/ortho toggle) :)

jesterKing
Site Admin
Posts: 207
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2002 12:48 pm
Location: Finland

Post by jesterKing »

joeri wrote:But... I always thought [1]-[3]-[7] on a laptop for front-side-top was not very intuitive.
Dunno, looking at my numpad, it looks rather intuitive. But right, for laptop users using emulated numpad that doesn't necessarily look all to intuitive :)

/Nathan

MNME
Posts: 0
Joined: Fri Nov 15, 2002 5:04 am
Location: England

Post by MNME »

joeri yes... Yes.. YES!... lets take back Q.... the single most pointless button in blender history.... i realise im gunna be a little below the norm, but i quit about once per week (and not coz i only use blender once per week)... and.. i use the menu too.... Q is just a lack of care hazard for when youv done W click W click W click about a million times ;)

can always shuffle Quit to ctrl Q or something.

solmax... heh.. yeah, its all valuable realestate nowdays :) .... 100% customisation is the dream... would make life so much easier.... first thing i'd do is get a splitter and paint over the keys on an old board then write all my new buttons on it :)

and... as for laptop users..... sorry to say it, but... stuff em... and stuff 2 button mouse users too :P

has anyone thaught about Ctrl Tab for vert mode, Shift tab for face mode, and ctrl shift tab for edge mode?....... sounds horrible to me, but.. its an idea

Kenden
Posts: 0
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 4:11 pm

Post by Kenden »

True, forgot the laptop numpad emulation.
That makes direct keys 1 2 3 not usable!

But 'Q' would be nice.
Q cycling or Q-1/2/3.

Bellorum
Posts: 0
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2004 3:27 pm

Post by Bellorum »

Death to all laptop users :twisted: Aw, I really liked that proposal. I still think cycling through modes suck, and your gonna hear more complaints about that than about the way it's currently implemented.
There's no such thing as democracy. There's only the tyranny of one, and the tyranny of many.

solmax
Posts: 86
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2002 2:47 am
Contact:

Post by solmax »

Bellorum wrote:Death to all laptop users :twisted: Aw, I really liked that proposal.
not a laptop user, though i use them instead of numpad (too far away from left hand, and i don't wanna leave the mouse during editing)
Bellorum wrote: I still think cycling through modes suck, and your gonna hear more complaints about that than about the way it's currently implemented.
ever tried?

the big frustration remains, as long as we don't have the freedom to fully customize shortcuts and menus. the customization level given in maya was one of the features i liked most, among the tools, of course. user definable marking menus (or actually a key in combination with a mouse gesture) were the most powerful interface concept i ever saw and used. SI | 3D had another intersting concept - double-keys. actually like CTRL + something, but utilizing all keys as an "extension". of course this is hardcore for some users, but i could live with that :)

i'd strongly recommend thinking of such extensions to the UI, or we'll run straight into a usability-dead end with the growing functionality.

Bellorum
Posts: 0
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2004 3:27 pm

Post by Bellorum »

Bellorum wrote:

I still think cycling through modes suck, and your gonna hear more complaints about that than about the way it's currently implemented.


ever tried?
No. But in this case I don't think I need to. It's pretty self-evident to me that cycling is going to create problems. I mean if I happen to cycle one step to many I have to go through them all one more time; or, which I don't find more thrilling a solution, use some kind of reverse cycling mode, that forces me to use another combination. Obviously a more direct shortcut approach would be more suited for a speedy workflow. But you can still try to convince me :wink:

I'm more in line with your double key-approach. Here's a thought - we could still use 1,2,3 but in combination with like for say alt (ctrl seems to be more awkward for these buttons considering the way you, or I at least, have to twist my hand)
There's no such thing as democracy. There's only the tyranny of one, and the tyranny of many.

solmax
Posts: 86
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2002 2:47 am
Contact:

Post by solmax »

it just came into my mind, after writing the SI3D approach of double-keys:

how about using tab itself as the modification key? that is:

- press and release tab opens edit mode (current way)
- hold tab and hit 1, 2 or 3 takes you to vertex, edge, face
- press and release tab again takes you out of edit mode (also current way)

advantages:

- current workflow remains unchanged (once more we save "backward-compatibility", the innovation-killer #1 ;) )
- no collisions with layer/viewport switching
- no additional keys
- keys can be reached easily (pinky on tab, ring, middle and index on 1, 2, 3)

this makes all happy - except the man who has to code it, maybe

marin

Post Reply