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Vertex/Edge/Face delete "functionality"

Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2004 11:54 pm
by dgebel
I was following a tutorial from betterspace (lightwave) about creating a starfield (whatever happened to the Blender nebula tutorial??), and it said to make a sphere and delete all the faces, leaving the vertices.

Oky-doky. In Blender that would be X->Delete faces...

Hey... where did all the vertices go...????

Sure enough, Delete FACES now deletes VERTICES as well. Even in the new Vertex selection mode. When did this happen? Looks like it has worked like this for several versions at least. Was this a planned change? I haven't noticed anything about it on here.

Create any mesh (if need be, sub-divide it several times so you have a bunch of faces if you picked PLANE or something simple :) ) and select several faces so that all faces that share a vertex are selected. Delete faces, and the vertex gets deleted as well.

When I delete Faces, I expect ONLY the faces to be deleted. Delete Faces and Edges and Vertices are redundant options now... but I don't like it that way. Having worked with Blender awhile, I understand WHY those are options. :(

Can we get that functionality back?

Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 12:44 am
by Bellorum
Actually. When I delete faces, I expect the vertices inbetween faces deleted to be removed as well. This is normal behavior in 3d applications(which is surprising, considering Blender always seems to do it the other way around, just for the heck of it;) However, I recognize your dilemma, and maybe an option to delete faces/keep vertices would be valid. It wouldn't hurt to nag the developers about it.

Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 12:45 am
by theeth
Delete Faces always worked that way as far back as I can remember.

That's why the Only Faces and Edge & Faces entries are there.

Martin

Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 1:45 am
by ideasman
Delete ONLY faces-
Removes faces- but keeps edges.

remove Only edges would be nice :)

if you want to get rid of edges too, I discovered a way


select all
del only faces
extrude (only in 2.35 +)
.. Only verts. just press enter, no moving
Wkey, select swap
deleate. verts
Wkey remove doubles.
Viola

Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:02 am
by theeth
ideasman wrote:remove Only edges would be nice :)
Since you can't remove the edges and keep the faces, I'm assuming you're talking about something like the Edges & Faces option that's already there.
Viola
A viola is a small violin. You probably meant voila... ;)

Martin

Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 6:49 am
by stratacator
Actually the viola is larger than the violin. It's also got a slightly deeper sound.

As for the face removal, I can't really comment, because I'm not that experienced with Blender. However, I suspect that the built in star effect can recreate the effect with less overhead for you. Also, I think it's possible to apply a texture to the background, in which case you could probably come up with a nice star field that way. Good luck.

Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 1:32 pm
by theeth
stratacator wrote:Actually the viola is larger than the violin. It's also got a slightly deeper sound.
Fine, but at least I only had the size thing wrong, not the actual instrument. ;)
Thanks for the precision.

And yes, the star field effect would probably be better suited anyway.

Martin

Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 7:07 pm
by Cyberdigitus
remove edges would be a very handy addition indeed.

when you have a poly of two tri's and you want to remove instead of delete the inner edge for instance, giving a quad instead of a hole.

Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 8:22 pm
by harkyman
So, if you've used delete only faces and are left with verts and edges, how is that a problem? I'm assuming that you'll be applying a texture of some sort to the verts so they show up like stars. Edges don't render. Just leave them.

Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 8:38 pm
by z3r0_d
Cyberdigitus wrote:remove edges would be a very handy addition indeed.

when you have a poly of two tri's and you want to remove instead of delete the inner edge for instance, giving a quad instead of a hole.
until blender supports ngongs that would be the only use of such a feature

and, instead of deleting and recreating with a quad, just use alt+J

Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 10:12 pm
by dgebel
Sigh.
I knew that. I thought I HAD picked that. Ok, Delete Faces Only and Delete Edges and Faces do what they should. :oops: Maybe the CVS version I had was broken! :wink:

One thing - there are 3 terms/keys for the same thing now however, confusing the terminolgy/nemonics - its (now?) the "Erase" pop-up box menu instead of the Delete menu - You press the Delete (or X!) key, the Mesh menu reads delete. The pop-up box should be Delete too.

Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 1:08 am
by matt_e
Yeah, the way deleting works now is rather annoying, I hate having to do all the geometrical conversions in my head every time I just want to delete something! "Hmm, am I deleting an edge, or no those vertices are connected to this which means an edge is selected underneath, and deleting those 2 edges will also delete this in between..." bah.

I want to be able to just X, click, and it deletes what's selected on screen as the default action (maybe with a few other options like the only faces etc, at the bottom). I wrote this when the verts/edges/faces were just implemented, but there wasn't really any response...

Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 2:29 am
by theeth
broken wrote:Yeah, the way deleting works now is rather annoying, I hate having to do all the geometrical conversions in my head every time I just want to delete something! "Hmm, am I deleting an edge, or no those vertices are connected to this which means an edge is selected underneath, and deleting those 2 edges will also delete this in between..." bah.

I want to be able to just X, click, and it deletes what's selected on screen as the default action (maybe with a few other options like the only faces etc, at the bottom). I wrote this when the verts/edges/faces were just implemented, but there wasn't really any response...
I'd suggest something like this:

In Face mode, the menu would look like this:

Delete?
--------
Faces
Only Faces


In Edge mode:

Delete?
--------
Edges
Only Edges


And in vertex mode

Delete?
--------
Vertice



Note that there's no "only vertice" option since this wouldn't make much sense.

The Only Edges function would replace the current Edges and Faces option since, as with vertice for edges and faces, faces cannot exist without edges and deleting edges always remove the faces in both case.

The menu would reflect the mode selection, including multimode. Meaning if you have Face and Edge mode selected, you'd get the Face and Edge related options.

What do you guys think?

Martin

Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 10:15 am
by tommy
I think that's a very good idea theeth, however I think limiting delete options depending on the edit mode should be an option rather than a set feature. Personally, I think it's quite handy to be able to delete anything regardless of whether you're in vertex-, edge- or face-mode. Having said that, I still think it's a good idea to rename the current choices as some may seem ambiguous or redundant (eg: the "Delete Edges and Faces" option).

So as not to seem too critical, I'd just like to point out that the new mesh editing functionality added to Blender in the last few releases have been simply amazing. After toying with previous Blender releases and failing to start a serious project going, the new mesh tools have really made me go back to good ol' Blender and I've actually started doing something more extensive.

Good job, coders! that's all I can say!

Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 6:50 pm
by Kenden
*Edited*

tommy, the extrude system is already implemented this way (different extrude options depending of the mode), so it seems logical to do the same with delete.
(And I would say that the exclude system is not strict enough. It shouldn't propose to extrude faces in Edge mode, this should be proposed only in Edge + Face mode. But well...).

theeth and Matt, your proposal sounds good.
I think it could even be improved a bit, because in several cases, 'Erase Faces' and 'Erase only Faces' will have the same effect, so it is confusing for the user to have multiple choices that will have the same results.
Choosing ‘Erase Faces’ or ‘Erase Only Faces’ has the same effect when:

- the mesh has more than one face,
- all the selected faces have no common edges,
- all the selected faces have edges in common with other (non selected) faces.
Image--->Image

So, when pressing 'x', before displaying the menu, Blender could check for those conditions and only display the appropriate option.

kenden