Relative vertex key enhancements.

The interface, modeling, 3d editing tools, import/export, feature requests, etc

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joeri
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Post by joeri » Wed Jan 05, 2005 12:47 am

"The trouble is, there are only a handful of sliders where it might work. "

I think you'd be surpriced on where it work just fine. I'll give some examples:
Current frame slider: min/max can be set to normal animation limits, because than (with the alt-lmb/alt-rmb) the limits can be changed to whatever.
Color: Hee, floating point renderer, values beyond 1 are perfect for say, extra white ( really, who needs hdri if you can set the spec texture to 4.0, 4.0, 4.0 and not the dumb limit of 1,1,1 ?)
Image SizeX: 10000 ? Xparts: 32 ? Hardness: 511

These values are all based on: "That's the biggest people want", not "That's a normal max". Making the sliders all have different up values per pixel. Anyway...
Even if you'd want limits, that should be no problem. There can be limits to the min/max.


" If you have an idea for a correction, feel free to share. "
I think I gave my comments.
Make it a tool, not a button field of data visualizer.
Your mockup needs a little more work,... by you :)
Okay, I'll make time to have a shot at it, I already started this threat you know... And broken knows much more about this stuff then I do.

poutsa
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Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 4:49 pm
Location: Munich (Germany)

Post by poutsa » Fri Jan 07, 2005 5:34 pm

-Controllers (Sliders) for BlendShapes in Blenders 3D View like in this Video Tutorial in Maya.

Download this Video Clip tutorial from here to see this Method in Maya!!

http://rodri.aniguild.com/Basic_Ctr_Bs_Video/



So......
if you can Open this Sliders like the Emptys from the Menue Visible in 3D View (Like this Sliders from the Video Tutorial) with a Handle in the middle to move Up and Down and Place this in 3D area x,y,z everywhere like the Emptys ,.....as Example in Front of Mouth of your Character then with the Slider Selected Press the N Button to Open the Tranform Properties for this Slider in 3D View and here you can find a List with all the RVKeys( if you have some) so now select this One for the Mouth Control and Accept ..........
ofcourse you must give a Colour for this Handle for this Slider and you can Control many other Parameters from this Window!!!
so if you move the Handle Up and Down you can Controll the Mouth RVK´s.......


And if you enter Edit Mode you can Edit and Transform, and give Names or Rename your Sliders.
Edit the .............
Lenght,Width,Tranparenz,Colour,On/Off, Pin-Unpin,
Active or not,
List of RVKeys(Blendshapes) Visible in the Sliders Edit Mode.....and others,
X-Ray for Sliders...
Mix BlendShapes or Group or make a Solo!



SORRY FOR MY ENGLISH AGAIN!!!I hope you understand what i mean!!??? :?
Vassilios

jhk
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Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2005 9:56 am

Post by jhk » Wed Jan 12, 2005 10:23 am

The ability to edit the mesh as whole (adding verts ect.) after the rvks are allready done is essential for makig the rvks useable. I don't even remember how many times I've just hit Q-Enter when I've allready made half of the rvks and then notice that I cant pull the next shape off without a new vertex or a few.

The new rvks / blendshapes (/ whatever name it will have) system seems fantastic! Make sure this one goes from plans to sources some time soon!

joeri
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Post by joeri » Wed Jan 12, 2005 11:17 am

jhk wrote:The ability to edit the mesh as whole (adding verts ect.) after the rvks are allready done is essential for makig the rvks useable. I don't even remember how many times I've just hit Q-Enter when I've allready made half of the rvks and then notice that I cant pull the next shape off without a new vertex or a few.
A simple solution would be to add a vertex in all the other targetshapes at a (on the edge) relative same position.

ton
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Post by ton » Sun Sep 25, 2005 12:05 pm

Last post here january, and only now a coder wakes up. Better late than never eh! :)

I've studied all propals here, very interesting & useful. I think I can implement it in a way that gives both Joeri and Monkeyboi what they like to see (I also like both approaches).

What I'm going to try will give a BlendShape panel in mesh buttons, to be able to select the active 'shape' (formerly called vertex key), and set all kinds all values for it. Including the slider, min/max, ipo color, etc.
It will be a menu like how you browse Materials in buttons, not the constraint approach. Reason for that is to enable Joeri's approach, to "Pin" a key to the Mesh Object. You then can alt+d as many objects you want, and pin each of them to the key you like it to have. (The "insert key" menu can - if it sees theres a linked-duplicate mesh - automatically pin the Shape. That enables selecting the shapes in the 3d window, and edit them. Any one of the Shapes can be the "Master" shape.
I will also check on the option "edit all", which allows all shapes to be edited at once.

Further I want to move the action mesh key sliders to the Ipowindow. That can become a generic option for any Ipo then. Here's the best place to have all sliders show at once (better to avoid that in Button Panels I think).

Lastly I want to check on any getting Ipo system into an Action, and into the NLA editor, so you can control and synchronize timing.
This means - for Shape Key editing - that you can use a single Mesh with shapes, and edit as many Actions for it you want to be animated.

The Driven Key system joeri proposes is promising. I'm not sure yet where in the internal structure it would fit, and how you get access to it (the need to select both objects to see the "driver" ipo is a bit cumbersome.
The most promising concept is to expand the current Ipos with it, as illustrated by one of the last mockups from Joeri - where you can choose to have either IpoCurves working on channels, or to set up "drivers" for channels.

Adding a "driver" then still has an IpoCurve, but that only denotes the mapping method (to make sure you can map degrees to RGB for example). Any Ipo data Block then can have as many drivers you like (1 per channel).
Drivers can be of type "Ipo Channel" (using existing channels), or a (Python) expression (text button), or just a Python script.

Zarf
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Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2002 3:54 am

Post by Zarf » Mon Sep 26, 2005 7:02 am

jhk wrote:The ability to edit the mesh as whole (adding verts ect.) after the rvks are allready done is essential for makig the rvks useable. I don't even remember how many times I've just hit Q-Enter when I've allready made half of the rvks and then notice that I cant pull the next shape off without a new vertex or a few.

The new rvks / blendshapes (/ whatever name it will have) system seems fantastic! Make sure this one goes from plans to sources some time soon!
I would like to second this. Not only should we be able to do things like add faces/edges/verts and remove them (which we can do now really), but any changes to the mesh should be incorporated across all shapes intelligently. For instance if you subdivide a set of edges while the mesh is in one state, the new vertices should be placed in the other shapes as if you manually went into each shape, selected those edges and hit 'subdivide'.

This sort of functionality is becoming pretty standard in 3d apps these days (XSI, Lightwave, Maya - to some extent) and with the recent advances in the way major films are doing facial animation, its essential.

It would also be nice to have shapes seperated into two classes; states and morphs. States would be shapes stored in absolute coordinates and morphs would be relative to a chosen state. Right now RVK's have only one 'state' and a lots of 'morphs'. The limitiation is rather arbitrary however, and there are some advantages to having multiple 'states' per mesh.

Cheers,
Xarf

joeri
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Post by joeri » Mon Sep 26, 2005 10:09 am

I don't see how subdividing an edge with a knife tool should be a problem in my proposal.
All the edges in the different shapes have the same number (they must), so say dividing edge #2 at 50% into 2 edges is a command that could go on all blendshapes. Same goes for joining verteces. UV is done on the master, so dividing trouble would be the same as it is now.

Zarf wrote:
"The limitiation is rather arbitrary however, and there are some advantages to having multiple 'states' per mesh."

I was thinking that a master could be a morph target itself. This would make it possible for one person to do lipsync, and another person on another machine to do facial expressions. They would be easely mixed by combining both masters as targets.

Anyway,... Nice work Ton! looking forward to see the implementation, I think it will be great.

LetterRip
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Post by LetterRip » Sun Oct 02, 2005 2:18 am

Ton,

it was mentioned in an elysiun thread that it would be useful to have an option to live update the morph in the 3d view as you were dragging the slider.

Also it would be useful to be able to take a part of a morph and create an morph out of just that subset, ie say you do a snarl and squinted eyes as an morph but then decide that you want a seperate squint morph as well then you would select the verts that make up the rvk and do add morph. Another possibility would be trim morph - ie you do a morph but it has some stuff you don't want - select the unwanted stuff and do ''trim morph'.

LetterRip

onip
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Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 6:32 am

Post by onip » Sun Oct 02, 2005 8:44 am

Another thing that could be very useful for facial animation is the possibility to weight the effect of morphing with vertex groups,like we do with bones and hooks(thank you Ton for this!).
Sorry for my bad english
Ciao
pino

pildanovak
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Post by pildanovak » Sun Oct 02, 2005 11:06 am

sliders in blender don't make realtime response at all. This could be changed...

Bellorum
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Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2004 3:27 pm

Post by Bellorum » Sun Oct 02, 2005 11:43 am

pildanovak wrote:sliders in blender don't make realtime response at all. This could be changed...
Quoted for agreement. That was the thing that annoyed me the most while playing around with the new shapes.
There's no such thing as democracy. There's only the tyranny of one, and the tyranny of many.

Caronte
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Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 12:53 am
Location: Valencia-Spain-Europe

Post by Caronte » Sun Oct 02, 2005 1:13 pm

Bellorum wrote:
pildanovak wrote:sliders in blender don't make realtime response at all. This could be changed...
Quoted for agreement. That was the thing that annoyed me the most while playing around with the new shapes.
Same here :(
Caronte.
"Some Day, All Will Be Digital"
http://www.nicodigital.com

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