new interface

The interface, modeling, 3d editing tools, import/export, feature requests, etc

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SamAdam
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Post by SamAdam » Wed Jan 12, 2005 7:45 pm

i think everyone here needs to chillax

why don't we just leave broken alone, to do his work, and then when it is done, and we have all tried it and given it a fair chance in its final form,

and we are willing to work on it to change it if we don't like it,

we present our ideas in a nice, peaceful way, and broken won't be offended, because he knows that all of his work is appreciated by the silent majority.

There. Now quite arguing and do some blender stuff or something.

Money_YaY!
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Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2002 2:47 pm

Post by Money_YaY! » Wed Jan 12, 2005 8:08 pm

SamAdam wrote:i think everyone here needs to chillax

why don't we just leave broken alone, to do his work, and then when it is done, and we have all tried it and given it a fair chance in its final form,

and we are willing to work on it to change it if we don't like it,

we present our ideas in a nice, peaceful way, and broken won't be offended, because he knows that all of his work is appreciated by the silent majority.

There. Now quite arguing and do some blender stuff or something.
Would be nice if we all could.. :D

theeth
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Post by theeth » Thu Jan 13, 2005 3:59 am

Money_YaY! wrote:
SamAdam wrote:i think everyone here needs to chillax

why don't we just leave broken alone, to do his work, and then when it is done, and we have all tried it and given it a fair chance in its final form,

and we are willing to work on it to change it if we don't like it,

we present our ideas in a nice, peaceful way, and broken won't be offended, because he knows that all of his work is appreciated by the silent majority.

There. Now quite arguing and do some blender stuff or something.
Would be nice if we all could.. :D
You mean you don't do code and you don't do art either?

That's funny on a lot of levels you know.

And Joeri, remind me to take cover if you're ever driving a car near me. ;)

Martin
Life is what happens to you when you're busy making other plans.
- John Lennon

Money_YaY!
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Post by Money_YaY! » Thu Jan 13, 2005 4:37 am

theeth wrote:
Money_YaY! wrote:
SamAdam wrote:i think everyone here needs to chillax

why don't we just leave broken alone, to do his work, and then when it is done, and we have all tried it and given it a fair chance in its final form,

and we are willing to work on it to change it if we don't like it,

we present our ideas in a nice, peaceful way, and broken won't be offended, because he knows that all of his work is appreciated by the silent majority.

There. Now quite arguing and do some blender stuff or something.


Would be nice if we all could.. :D
You mean you don't do code and you don't do art either?

That's funny on a lot of levels you know.

And Joeri, remind me to take cover if you're ever driving a car near me. ;)

Martin
hha h ha

I meant rest and relax silly. Which you need some to :P

joeri
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Post by joeri » Thu Jan 13, 2005 10:19 am

theeth wrote: And Joeri, remind me to take cover if you're ever driving a car near me. ;)
Martin
I don't have a drivers license, so it would be pretty obvious that you'd need to get out of the way. Assuming you are in another car ofcourse.

joeri
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Post by joeri » Thu Jan 13, 2005 12:54 pm

broken wrote:Oh, that's nice. So "pleasing the user" really means "pleasing you"?

I don't have anything against that, but I hoped I made it clear I was giving critic and not assignments.
broken wrote:
joeri wrote:There is no need to please the user. Only need to please the developer. Broken can pretent he does it for the user, but that's just nonsens
Okay, you're right, I don't know why you do it.
I meant that commercial software need clients and blender does not.
If adobe makes a ps that people don't like then they don't buy it and adobe has a bad year. It doesn't work like that with blender. People will dl 2.37 anyway and if they don't like it they don't use it and wait for 2.38.
The developers need an other motivation then sales driven pleasing-the-user. I should not have put it so blunt.
I'm not a user?
That's not the image people have of you, you are a developer, an influencial one. You can make all the buttons disappear. So, no, you are not a user.
I'm exhausted from this thread. I'm willing to compromise with something like efbie's idea in order to please the most number of users, but later, when I have some energy again.
This is confussing to me, how is it a compromise if it pleases the most number of users?
The other people who like such changes are not users? Hanzo, who requests it independently is not a user?
This is on topic again, you already state you're into a compromise so I'd better not poke you to death. But...
Hanzo says he finds the dotted line silly, he does not says he has no need to see where the light is in 3d space. Removing the line solves the ugly line, but it creates a location "problem". I know maya does not have 3d location on lamp but it also does not have size in the lamps.
Most other things (in reallife) have location. The sun has a location. And without a pole it was very confussing for a long time what that location was. Only because of movement it became clear where it is in space.
Lamps on a set have location by a pole. People model objects on the grid to give it location. Walk cycles are made on the grid. Mario has a little shadow to give it location. Nemo has a little shadow right underneath him to give it location. A lamp is not as abstract as a scene.
I have no idea why you want to deny it or say that I don't confince you.
The only reason I can come up with is because you have no solution for this and thus say it's no problem. I'm well aware I could be very wrong.
Please don't imply that the only person I care about is myself, that's unfair and simply not true. If it was, I wouldn't have spent weeks and weeks of my own time on the menus, which I don't even use myself.
I'm not implying any of that, I'm sorry if I made you feel that way.
I was talking about developers motivations, the difference between commercial and opensource applications. But you are right, I don't know what your motivation is, so I missused your name. For all I know you don't get any personal kick out of changing the interface of a world wide used 3d app. to your own taste and is it all mother Theresa work. That's just superimposing my motivation on you, that's wrong, and I'm sorry.
Besides, if I really didn't care, I would have put this stuff straight in BF. But it's not, it's in tuhopuu precisely to get feedback.
That's what I'm doing, giving feedback, I think I'm spending lots of time to make it valueble feedback, something you can do something with.

If you don't do anything with my comments because of the fact that they are "my point of view" then I better stop giving comments, 'cause I don't pretent like samAdam to speak for the silent majority, I speak out of my experience.
And then we are right back at my first question, "what is wrong with negative feedback". I get the feeling you just don't want to hear it, that's all.

slikdigit
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Post by slikdigit » Wed Jan 26, 2005 5:16 pm

hello
I hope this is the right place to dump quick impressions of the new interface. I'd say right now it looks nice- a bit of color wouldn't hurt distinguishing the buttons- and still feels like a work in progress. No opinion on the layout changes yet- tuhopuu isn't too usable to me because mouse gestures are gone.

Okay: here's the meat: the checkbox stuff is nice for new users, but, the buttons always look "pressed" to me even when they are off. I think it's because they are flatter than the non checkbox buttons. would it be possible to change the shading, or even, change it on a click?

malCanDo
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Post by malCanDo » Wed Jan 26, 2005 5:44 pm

> mouse gestures are gone

You actually use gestures??? :)

Mal

slikdigit
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Post by slikdigit » Wed Jan 26, 2005 9:59 pm

you're kidding right? I love the gestures- I thought everyone did.

malCanDo
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Post by malCanDo » Wed Jan 26, 2005 10:26 pm

Like everything else, some people love em and some people hate em :)

It would be good if they were toggle-able. So I could turn them off.
And definable ( ie you could define additional gestures, and map them to other features, eg draw a B, and bevel the selection etc ). So that people who use them, could make even more use of them.

I only ever use them by mistake, so they actually get in my way when I'm doing a bit of modelling.

I'll also bet that most first time users ( students, or the next generation of Blender users ) think WTF when they start dragging the mouse button around, and weird things start happening.

I'd much prefer if that left mouse button functionality went into another weird but functional ( and toggle-able ) feature ( must not mention 3D transform gizmos, must not mention 3D transform gizmos :) )

It would be interesting to take a poll, to see who actually uses them on a regular basis.

Mal

lukep
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Post by lukep » Thu Jan 27, 2005 12:23 am

malCanDo wrote:Like everything else, some people love em and some people hate em :)

...

I'd much prefer if that left mouse button functionality went into another weird but functional ( and toggle-able ) feature ( must not mention 3D transform gizmos, must not mention 3D transform gizmos :) )

It would be interesting to take a poll, to see who actually uses them on a regular basis.

Mal
I never use G only gesture (was even forced to check the key), about 50% for rotate. ;)

As for 3D gizmos, depends really on how they are implemented. around 99% of the implementation I have seen are utterly crap in other softs. Few are good.

When they are, they are very usefull i agree.

As usual your mileage vary

slikdigit
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Post by slikdigit » Thu Jan 27, 2005 1:04 am

hehe, funny lukep- I use G gesture about 90% of the time, R and S less- because when I do the gestures for the last two , sometimes I swap 'em. I also like drag selecting in pose mode, to do the "default motion" of the bone. for me gestures when working are like "unconcious blending" pure muscle memory, no thought.

steve_t
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Post by steve_t » Thu Jan 27, 2005 3:29 am

As an experienced and long time blender user I am THRILLED at what is going on with the new interface and I hope it makes it to BF for next release! The initial look is much more crisp and enviting.
- I love that buton function is not done by color anymore but by shape. The new check boxes and greater use of dropdown menus have reduced clutter and confusion
- The lamps show way more information than ever before. The idea to have a lamp change size with intensity is ingenius, not even maya has that. You are truely setting a standard.
- The render buttons panel reorganization is great. The workflow and functionality organization is well thought out, clutter is greatly reduced. I can't wait to see the others.

Keep up the good work, It is greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
Steve

rcas
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Post by rcas » Thu Jan 27, 2005 9:11 pm

I am one of those who also like the Mouse Gestures ;) .

On the Lamps issue, I really enjoy the new lamps, they give a nice feedback on the type of lamp in use.
Nevertheless it is imperative to know where the lamp is positioned.

If you don't like the dashed line that exists on the original lamps why not try and make a shadow projection of the lamp on the grid, that would also give the necessary feedback, although it wouldn't provide a visual height.
You could even use the dashed line but only if the object was selected and use the shadow projection once it was deselected.

Just hope you might like some of this ideas.
How to use a Blender:
Put your model, rig, animation and textures in the Blender, turn the Blender on and wait for it to Render, then turn the Blender off and show it to your friends.

slikdigit
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Post by slikdigit » Fri Jan 28, 2005 4:17 pm

on another note, I see that in tuhopuu, you cannot customize the colors of the new theme..... will this be possible at some point?

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