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Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 2:32 am
by matt_e
Ditto. Plus, Blender's the only app that has a 'primitive' as a primitive :)

Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 3:08 am
by Vek
The only reason a teapot was used, if I remember correctly, was that it could be constructed, simply, out of a very small number of bezier patches. Some guys had actually memorized the patch parameters (an arrary of maybe 50 numbers or so). This was back when computers struggled to render the poor teapot... but you see, they needed an object with some concave edges, some convex edges, and some smooth curves. So the teapot was born.

You can still find the original teapot patch parameters online, and create it from those parameters, exactly as it was years ago.

The same objectives are achieved, already, by the suzanne model. It has convex and concave parts, and it is made out of patches. It is a much more complex model, and thus is actually better suited to testing out more complicated lighting equations and stuff on, than the teapot is. So it achieves the same objectives, its just different.

Re: [Feature request] - GLUT teapot

Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 8:44 am
by mjordan
lukep wrote: First, it not a GLUT teapot, but an UTAH teapot nicknamed the teapotheadron http://sjbaker.org/teapot/

The GLUT version of it is not even genuine, it has a bottom !
BTW the version found in blender test files seems to be the GLUT one.
Very interesting article, really. But we are in CG, so the GLUT one is what is considered standard. :P
Secondly, you dont really need a menu for that, just use a reguar blend file as repository, and when in need of an object, use the append command to browse inside it and get what you need.

You can store this way objects, materials, textures, whatever you need.
So we can remove suzanne this way :-)
Apart jokes, asking for something in an add menu doesn't mean "I can solve with the append function". Of course I can. But having something builtin is quite different. :P

Re: [Feature request] - GLUT teapot

Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 9:26 am
by joeri
lukep wrote:
Secondly, you dont really need a menu for that, just use a reguar blend file as repository, and when in need of an object, use the append command to browse inside it and get what you need.

You can store this way objects, materials, textures, whatever you need.
This seems to be a concept thats hard to understand.
What are we going to do?
Adapt blender to the people or the people to blender?

Re: [Feature request] - GLUT teapot

Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 12:23 pm
by mjordan
joeri wrote:
lukep wrote:
Secondly, you dont really need a menu for that, just use a reguar blend file as repository, and when in need of an object, use the append command to browse inside it and get what you need.

You can store this way objects, materials, textures, whatever you need.
This seems to be a concept thats hard to understand.
What are we going to do?
Adapt blender to the people or the people to blender?
joeri may ask you in which blender's project are you involved?

Re: [Feature request] - GLUT teapot

Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 12:53 pm
by joeri
mjordan wrote:joeri may ask you in which blender's project are you involved?
In the general grumbling, background noise and butt kicking.

I just finished a big private dvd project, so now i'll make some time free to make an animation for the next BAF. I'm doing a little design for blenderArtist. I'll start the anim after the big GUI change, I'm not very familiar with the current interface and I hear it's going to change soon. I'm even thinking about diving into making more animation tools, not sure if that will be in C or in python, at least put a z-ax on the new lamp :P . But time, or lack of it, is my biggest problem. My 2 year old daughter is a darling.
For the foundation I'm keeping track of feature requests to put on blender3d.com. http://www.blender3d.org/cms/Feature_Re ... 480.0.html

Why? You want me to implement the teapot?
I am seriously thinking about a visual data browser.

Re: [Feature request] - GLUT teapot

Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 4:48 pm
by gabio
joeri wrote:Why? You want me to implement the teapot?
I am seriously thinking about a visual data browser.
*ding*
/me smile.

Re: [Feature request] - GLUT teapot

Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 5:23 pm
by mjordan
joeri wrote:
mjordan wrote:joeri may ask you in which blender's project are you involved?
In the general grumbling, background noise and butt kicking.

I just finished a big private dvd project, so now i'll make some time free to make an animation for the next BAF. I'm doing a little design for blenderArtist. I'll start the anim after the big GUI change, I'm not very familiar with the current interface and I hear it's going to change soon. I'm even thinking about diving into making more animation tools, not sure if that will be in C or in python, at least put a z-ax on the new lamp :P . But time, or lack of it, is my biggest problem. My 2 year old daughter is a darling.
For the foundation I'm keeping track of feature requests to put on blender3d.com. http://www.blender3d.org/cms/Feature_Re ... 480.0.html

Why? You want me to implement the teapot?
I am seriously thinking about a visual data browser.
Nothing in particular. Since I'm new here I'd like to know people better. No no, no teapot implementation. People seems don't like my proposal. Even if i'd like to have one, going ahead technical motivations.

Re: [Feature request] - GLUT teapot

Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 5:24 pm
by mjordan
gabio wrote:
joeri wrote:Why? You want me to implement the teapot?
I am seriously thinking about a visual data browser.
*ding*
/me smile.
Gabio, what makes you laugh? :shock:

Re: [Feature request] - GLUT teapot

Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 5:57 pm
by mjordan
joeri wrote: This seems to be a concept thats hard to understand.
What are we going to do?
Adapt blender to the people or the people to blender?
It's not hard. It's hard to understand that having something builtin is different from using append mode. I do not come here to ask for a teapot model. I asked for a primitive of a teapot mesh that is different.

Your last sentence make no sense and it is self answered, other than provocative. Nobody here needs a software of that kind. Computer programs are made for the user. If users have to adapt to their software, it means that software needs to be refactored.
Personally I do not adapt to any kind of software and I consider stupid doing it when there is always an alternative.

Regards.
Renato Perini.

Re: [Feature request] - GLUT teapot

Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 1:41 am
by joeri
mjordan wrote:It's not hard. It's hard to understand that having something builtin is different from using append mode. I do not come here to ask for a teapot model. I asked for a primitive of a teapot mesh that is different.
I believe that to be nonsens. At least I think so. Because of no puntuation I can read that sentance 3 different ways.
If you have a menu option that reads "Teapot" you have no idea if it reads a model from disc or read coordinates from memory.
It makes more sense to have all thoose primitives you never use on disc, and it makes more sense to have them in a dynamic lib so people can add to them and be less developers dependant.
And you asked for a mesh primitive that to my knolledge is a nurbs.
mjordan wrote:Personally I do not adapt to any kind of software and I consider stupid doing it when there is always an alternative.
I believe that to be nonsens.
I bet you use ctrl-c to copy, sorry chap, that's an adaptation, you adapted to something someone thought up for you.
mjordan wrote:Your last sentence (Adapt blender to the people or the people to blender?) make no sense
It makes perfect sense.
You can teach people how something works (adapt people to blender)
lukep wrote: "Secondly, you dont really need a menu for that, just use a reguar blend file as repository"

Or adapt the tool to how (some) people want to work (adapt blender to people)
SamAdam wrote:"i am considering adding a python script hard coded with some primitives, and allow the user to add primitives"

The latter seems to be in favor to most developers the last few years.
mjordan wrote:Nobody here needs a software of that kind. Computer programs are made for the user.
I don't believe that to be true.
Computer programs are made to make money in commercial software, or to satisfy personal needs in opensource software.

Re: [Feature request] - GLUT teapot

Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 2:49 am
by mjordan
joeri wrote:
mjordan wrote:It's not hard. It's hard to understand that having something builtin is different from using append mode. I do not come here to ask for a teapot model. I asked for a primitive of a teapot mesh that is different.
I believe that to be nonsens. At least I think so. Because of no puntuation I can read that sentance 3 different ways.
If you have a menu option that reads "Teapot" you have no idea if it reads a model from disc or read coordinates from memory.
It makes more sense to have all thoose primitives you never use on disc, and it makes more sense to have them in a dynamic lib so people can add to them and be less developers dependant.
And you asked for a mesh primitive that to my knolledge is a nurbs.
Politics. You're making my request harder than it is in reality.
joeri wrote:
mjordan wrote:Personally I do not adapt to any kind of software and I consider stupid doing it when there is always an alternative.
I believe that to be nonsens.
I bet you use ctrl-c to copy, sorry chap, that's an adaptation, you adapted to something someone thought up for you.
You adapt to a software when you force yourself to use some feature you dislike and when you have a better alternative to it. ctrl-c to copy, as you say, is simple use.
We're going a little bit off topic.
joeri wrote:
mjordan wrote:Your last sentence (Adapt blender to the people or the people to blender?) make no sense
It makes perfect sense.
You can teach people how something works (adapt people to blender)
lukep wrote: "Secondly, you dont really need a menu for that, just use a reguar blend file as repository"
Well, do we need all easter eggs present in Blender? I don't think so.
Sure, I don't need such a menu. I saw I WANT it. That's different. And it makes my request perfectly legitimate.
joeri wrote:
mjordan wrote:Nobody here needs a software of that kind. Computer programs are made for the user.
I don't believe that to be true.
Computer programs are made to make money in commercial software, or to satisfy personal needs in opensource software.
Well, you agree with me. Make money in commercial softwares. By USING IT. BY USERS. By users that have to use that software and have to feel comfortable with it.
That's your personal opinion. If you need to please your needs writing software, you don't need to open sources. You program on your computer and leave your source there.
Coding is hard work. A few people programs only for the pleasure of programming. Many programmers write code for the users, because the real pleasure is seeing users happy with their code and their feedback. Ask to someone involved in some project here and see if he/she programs only for the taste of writing code. You're better reading some OSI stuff first.

For me, this discussion can be considered CLOSED. I'm a little bit tired of politicians, especially these days.

Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 4:13 am
by stiv
Woo Doggies! That sure became a tempest in a teapot. ( someone had to say it! ).

But before we go, I would like to give the work 'intuitive' a couple of good kicks. There is nothing intuitive about computer graphics or computers themselves. Nothing! When people say 'intuitive', what they are really talking about is a lack of surprise. It is 'intuitive' that the screen cursor moves along with the mouse because we have learned that relationship and are not surprised.

Re: [Feature request] - GLUT teapot

Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 11:41 pm
by joeri
mjordan wrote:For me, this discussion can be considered CLOSED. I'm a little bit tired of politicians, especially these days.
Excuse me?

mjordan wrote:Politics. You're making my request harder than it is in reality.
I'm telling you why your not getting it.
mjordan wrote:We're going a little bit off topic.
Then don't bring the nonsens adaptation argument.
mjordan wrote:And it makes my request perfectly legitimate.
Any request is legitimate. Some can be told on forehand that they are not going to happen.
mjordan wrote:If you need to please your needs writing software, you don't need to open sources.
You do if you want to work with other (great) programmers. On great product, that's great technologicly wise.
mjordan wrote:Many programmers write code for the users, because the real pleasure is seeing users happy with their code and their feedback.
When do you plan to come back to the real world?

Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 2:55 am
by coltseaver
GLUT teapot was created with an algorithm not Suzanne :)