unit measurements, precise architectural modeling

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brett
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Joined: Wed May 04, 2005 10:36 pm

unit measurements, precise architectural modeling

Post by brett »

im trying to make my first model in Blender. we are using it here in an artists studio to make a model of a gallery in sweden from just a floor plan. i have experience with other modelers five-ten years ago, but not blender.

i started by tracing a path of the floor plan and extruding it. now im just trying to get it to proper scale and put in some other objects that use consistant measurements as well.

problem is two objects that are obviously different sizes and not perfectly square/cube are saying they are 1x1x1. how do i get blender to use one consistant unit of measurement? also how do i measure vertex to vertex, or a segment length?

im aware of the clear/apply size rotation commands, but they are doing the opposite of what i want.

thanks.
brett

ideasman
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Post by ideasman »

Turn on teach draw mode. It draws edge lengths for selected edges
Just make syre the objetcs scale is 1x1x1 else the scale will be incorrect.
- Cam

joeri
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Post by joeri »

Hmmm. I had this issue on another threat before.

The "Size" in the property box is the scalematrix where the vertex local position will be multiplied with. It's a local size (so if you rotate the object the X means the X direction the object is pointing in).
In blender it's best to keep this scale matrix at 1x1x1 at all times
and not use it to make a cube of 10m x 5m x 10cm by setting this size to 10x5x0.10 but rather put the verteces inside the cube on -5,-2.5,-0.05 -- 5,2.5,0.05.
I'm well aware that this is something you might not like, but please keep in mind that blender is not a CAD program, this is just one of the places where it shows.

kxs
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Post by kxs »

Yes, Blender is not CAD program. But, when trying to build models and to keep propotions right one little thing would do the trick. There would be great if there was shown distance between vertices. I`m not talking about EdgeLength because it shows only Length between 2 vertices on one edge. Take a cube for example. When there are only 8 vertices it`s all OK. But subdivide edges few times and then try to use EdgeLength to measure cube`s length. What will you do? Add every EdgeLength? Yes, there is a walkaround: Just select 2 most extreme vertices and join them with edge hitting F key. But it would be easier if there was an info in Transform Properties window showing distance between 2 most extreme selected vertices. Just select 2 desired vertices, hit N and there it is - you would know all the lengths you need.
Yes, Blender`s not CAD. But every time I have to model something keeping proportions I have to switch to CAD? Think about such measure tool and I`m sure more people will use Blender.

madcello
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Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2003 10:51 pm

Post by madcello »

How do i miss that kind of tools! :(

Try this script, it's a little help but better than nothing! (botton of page)

http://www.elysiun.com/forum/viewtopic. ... ht=#302258

wavk
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Post by wavk »

Hi kxs,

The way I measure stuff is just move one vertice down to the other and look in the 3d window header how much I've moved. And you don't need to measure much when building a house from a floor plan. Place them correctly the first time, by numeric input.

kxs
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Post by kxs »

wavk wrote:The way I measure stuff is just move one vertice down to the other and look in the 3d window header how much I've moved.
yeah, it`s a solution. but only if you`re moving vertex along one axis. what willa you do when you`ve got a plane and you want to check it`s diagonal`s length?
And you don't need to measure much when building a house from a floor plan. Place them correctly the first time, by numeric input.
yes, I agree. but what to do when modeling a human body, in a pose where it`s hard to check if proportions are right? with a most simple measureing tool you could easily check if for example arms are still the same length.

joeri
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Post by joeri »

I used to make a messure tool out of a poly mesh object.
Have the center dot at one end so it's easy to rotate, and little spike edges to mark the values on the scale.

Here is one I did before:
Image

wavk
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Post by wavk »

That's funny :) And precise enough for your basic character proportioning.

gk
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Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 5:38 am

measurement units are needed!

Post by gk »

I don't understand this. I stopped using blender about 6 months ago solely because of the frustrating lack of this feature. Now when I look over the forums I see the same silly answers to a simple request. As kxs said, could the numerical transform dialog box not display object dimensions using global units of any sort, not m or inches but anything other than 1.0? (or another dialog could be added, call it size?)

"Blender is not CAD program" always pops up as an excuse and I don't think it should be, maya, 3d max, lightwave and many other modelling programs have standard units of measurement. Also does it seem slightly inconvenient to drag a 3d ruler around or to make cubes and scale them just to see the proportions of objects in a scene.

Is there a technical reason for not including this feature as it has been requested numerous times?

This is the best I can find to help:
http://fab.media.mit.edu/cvs/cadblender ... sortby=log

But i'd really prefer if someone listen and could fix the problem instead.

Roy
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Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2002 6:47 pm

Post by Roy »

I wonder if Brett uses the cntrl while extruding or moving option, which 'jumps' half units, I find this usefull for modelling to scale, probably no good once something is already built though...

joeri
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Re: measurement units are needed!

Post by joeri »

gk wrote: Is there a technical reason for not including this feature as it has been requested numerous times?
What feature?

wavk
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Post by wavk »

Ehm... gk,

Dude, what's the problem in just imagining the unit system yourself. Just think to yourself that 1.0 is 1.0 meters. Or if you want to work in mm, just think of it like that. Is it that hard to imagine? I always use meters, because that works best for me on the scale of architectural models. Adding a unit letter behind the number doesn't add a thing. It's useless...

joeri
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Post by joeri »

Well, yes and no.

There are more levels to look at the CAD 'problem'.

1. Blender is an artist tool.
I know some (technical) people don't like to hear that or like to defend that there is no such thing, or like to see it as an excuse. But that's all just not true. Just think about van Gogh using a ruler and then see how silly you are demanding such a tool.

2. Blender as a CAD tool.
Have you got any idea what a cad tool is? Even Maya and Max are no longer cad tools. No industrial design company uses Maya todo their cad. Architectual companies might use it to save costs on autocad, but there are some serious differences between polybased render tools and volume/curve based construction tools. And I'm getting pretty bored explaining them to people who don't want to put a little effort in understanding a deformation matrix.

3. How simple is it to add a number size input. (shut up and just do it).
Well, that depends... Blender already has it, but some people don't seem to understand how things work (Matrix).
So what is the feature that you want? Type in a wall thick, length , height and angle? It's already there; just scale the object, not the verteces. Read the distances of the objects? Press N and it's all there. An inverse Apply might help, but then how is the computer to know at what angle a wall is it does not have the same thickness or height on all edges?.
You might think it's all 'better' in Maya, but all I can think of is the distance tool in Maya, and that's pretty much the same as the ruler I made.

gk
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Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 5:38 am

units

Post by gk »

re: wavk

Dude, theres no problem with that, but when you take an object and scale it it to 20 units wide, and then click on it again it is 1.0 wide.

The issue is not with assigning unit names but with having any constant unit to work with.

I'm not sure you get it.

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