Page 2 of 3

Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 11:09 pm
by malCanDo
I'd be VERY surprised if, out of 1000 Blender users, more 10 use gestures ( and I don't mean use, as in accidently make a gesture and then curse... if that's the case, include me :) ).

Having it as an option, replacable with "normal" box selection, would definitely assist with the usability of Blender.

Mal

Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 11:30 pm
by teachtech
So lukep

"works in 2D not in 3D"

I take it from your comment that the box commands only work in 2D and not 3D that you never use the "B" key command in Blender?

Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 5:30 am
by aoe2bug
So lukep

"works in 2D not in 3D"

I take it from your comment that the box commands only work in 2D and not 3D that you never use the "B" key command in Blender?
i don't think he was referring to box select in general, merely the "left-right is different from right-left" part.

also, i had an idea that may (or not) work: add selection as a gesture, (any diagonal) and have it remember the start/end points, which blender can pass those values to the box select function.

Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 11:38 am
by malCanDo
> also, i had an idea that may (or not) work: add selection as a gesture, (any diagonal) and have it remember the start/end points, which blender can pass those values to the box select function.

Now, if a compromise was possible, this would be it! Excellent idea!!!

Mal

Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 1:04 pm
by teachtech
aoe2bug,

I was just mentioning that after you hit the "B" key, you have exactly the right-to-left window option like in AutoCAD, it just doesn't do it automatically. I think Lukep took an opportunity to bash AutoCAD (which is fine with me because of the fact I need to use it doesn't mean I think the program is the best thing in the world- I'd much rather be doing solids modeling in Blender or SolidWorks)

The statement of not working in 3D and only in 2D confused me since that's what the "B" key does anyways. Now granted, if you have a really full scene and don't have any open spaces to press the mouse button to start a window to select, then you would still need to hit a key.

Anyways, to avoid an awful flaming which I think may have started when I brought up that evil AutoDesk product, :roll: I just added my idea of a selection method. I really don't have a problem with having to hit the "B" key to make a box selection. :D

Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:09 pm
by lukep
teachtech wrote:aoe2bug,

I was just mentioning that after you hit the "B" key, you have exactly the right-to-left window option like in AutoCAD, it just doesn't do it automatically. I think Lukep took an opportunity to bash AutoCAD
...
The statement of not working in 3D and only in 2D confused me since that's what the "B" key does anyways. Now granted, if you have a really full scene and don't have any open spaces to press the mouse button to start a window to select, then you would still need to hit a key.
No, the left to right thing is useful & perfect in 2D. in 3D as soon as things fill up, it is useless.

In fact, box-select is imho not very useful, circle select + direct RMB one is much more versatile

Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 9:34 pm
by poutsa
I use Gestures all the Time.. and i like to work using Gestures (fast Work)!
also i use the new Gestures Script from MarianĂ³ and Campo with Additional Functions for Gestures( you can work so fast its Incredible!)
For me its a very Important Feature! ....other 3D Application can only Dream about this Feature!
Please dont Remove "Gestures" if you do this you Kill me! :cry:

also the most of New Blender Users dont know about Blenders Gestures!!!
thats the reason i think!
ask the boys from Orange Project Team i Think they Use all the Time Gestures!!!
You can Grab Rotate and Scale a Object in only 2 Seconds this is a Record for the Guinness Book ! Can you do this in other 3d Application?
Read here in Elysiun Forum about Reactions and what Andy from Orange Team says about Gestures:

http://www.elysiun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=49157


SeeYa


Vassilios Boucer

Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 9:49 pm
by Bellorum
poutsa wrote:Please dont Remove "Gestures" if you do this you Kill me! :cry:
Don't kill poutsa!! ;)

I don't really care for gestures myself, but I have no problems with 'b' for border select.

Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 9:50 pm
by malefico
One more time: Nobody is talking about killing gesture mode. I realize it's an important feature for some people, and it's probably better make it the default so the ones using it do not get their workflow broken.

The whole thing here is about that area select using LMB+DRAG is also required by (as the poll at elysiun shows) a big number of users. So, making it an option sounds quite appropiate.

Regards and don't panic :wink:

malefico.

Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 8:05 am
by nemyax
I think Koba has made the best proposal so far:
Koba wrote:Couldn't the two be compatible?

Why not have gesture behaviour if the gesture is performed in empty space where nothing would be selected anyway (if something is already selected to apply the gesture to) and selection behaviour if when you let go of the mouse you might have been trying to select something (if nothing was selected initially). If you are holding Shift or whatever it is to add more to your selection, it could be selection behaviour only.

Am I making myself clear? I think the two can live side by side if context sensitive behaviour is used.

Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 10:08 am
by joeri
Shame that selection and transform are equal important otherwise the chooise would be easy.

It's no use doing a move/rotate/scale if nothing is selected, so on nothing selected a LMB-DRAG is probably a selection.
Doing a LMB-DRAG when something is selected is only a select more when holding the shift, and select less when holding the ctrl. So LMB-DRAG when something selected is probably a gesture.
Makes sense to me.
LMB-DRAG's that take more than a second are probably selections. Drags that take less are a gesture.

I think it's a typical beginner/advance discussion.
Beginners want blender to behaive like word and need the drag selection, without putting blender in selection mode.
Advanced users want to signlanguage with blender (by lack of mindplug).
A compromize will (I think) harm both, so a user option might be best.

Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 5:55 pm
by suntzu
hallo,

i agree with joeri. But maybe a little spacehandler-script could show a way to the solution.
Load this little script and start the spacehandler. Then, if you dobbleclick LMB in 3DVIEW it's like pushing the BKEY. So you can select objects with your mouse only.

Code: Select all

# SPACEHANDLER.VIEW3D.EVENT

import Blender
from Blender import sys, Draw, Object, Text, Window
evt = Blender.event

try: 	blendtext = Text.Get("blendtext")
except:	blendtext = Text.New("blendtext")

if blendtext.asLines()[0]: a_old = float(blendtext.asLines()[0])
else:                      a_old = 0
	
a = sys.time()

if evt == Draw.LEFTMOUSE:
	if   a_old == 0:	blendtext.write(str(a))
	else:			
		if (a - a_old) >= 1: 
			blendtext.clear()
		if   0.5 > (a - a_old) < 1:	
			area = Window.GetAreaID()
			Window.QAdd(area, Draw.BKEY, 1, 0)
			Window.QHandle(area)		
else: blendtext.clear()
suntzu

!THINK!

Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 6:09 pm
by poutsa
Hy suntzu!
:lol:
Yeah! something like this Script ......is the best Way to handle Gestures and B Selection!!
Thanks for Script!

If this can be done Internal and not as a Script its Better i Think!!
Left Double Click to acess Selection! like in your Script.

Vassilios Boucer

Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 11:24 pm
by Azrael
I think that having it as a choice is definately a WIN-WIN situation. I personally would like to see Border select changed to LMB.

Here's one vote for B...gone.

Interface Usage Information

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 9:54 pm
by v-i-c
I don't know much about the blender source...but in most programs I've worked on it's a trivial matter to add Interface Usage Tracking...

Something along the lines of an xml file that stores the number of times each feature is used/how it was accessed, which can be optionally submitted via webservice...

Right now a lot blender development seems to be focused on "the vocal minority"...ie. the people in the forums who "can't live without a feature" which they may be the only people who use...that's fine for a small project, but as the interface grows and gets more complex it becomes much harder to find and use features and a more rigorous method of getting feedback is necessary.

I think as a developer it would be very rewarding to know that by reorganizing a menu I increased the usage of a particular feature. Or that in reality gestures get used by three people.

George