a Target Camera would be great

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BogdanOancea
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a Target Camera would be great

Post by BogdanOancea » Tue Feb 07, 2006 1:42 pm

I'm not an animation master, nevertheless I'm glad to see Blender getting really good at the animation side of things. Kudos to the Orange Team!

But I was wondering how do you feel when you have to set up rendering a scene with the current type of camera. Isn't too cumbersome? A "Target Camera" (that is, a camera with a separate moveable target) would be a godsend for everybody, static renderings and animations alike.

Is somebody thinking about implementing one?

Bogdan
_______
p.s. Thanks, Broken, for Shift+Spacebar. :)

joeri
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Post by joeri » Tue Feb 07, 2006 3:48 pm

Personaly I think this is total nonsens.
An animator would never want a camera 'locked' to a target.

But then it already is in blender, it's just not a preset option.
Add an empty, track the camera to the empty, et voila.
(use ctrl-U to save this as your default scene and you'll always have your craved Target Camera on startup )

BogdanOancea
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Post by BogdanOancea » Tue Feb 07, 2006 6:35 pm

This is a little tricky to explain: In any viewport, the camera is difficult to maneuver to make it point, like, 20 units farther than the previous 10 units, but to keep it paralel with the horizon. Even if you rotate it with the Transform Orientation changed to "Local", it's still a mess. But here goes your tip -- it solves the problem -- I can just drag the Empty around (which acts as the target), and the camera remains in "equillibrium".

So thank you, Joeri, for the tip -- it's really useful -- but why not a preset, a Target Camera at every beginner's fingertips? Aren't we talking about a friendly interface and a faster workflow, with less cursoring around? There are many people who don't know yet about Tracking objects, and would need to point the camera anywhere easily, without having it tumble, so to speak.
An animator would never want a camera 'locked' to a target.
It's not locked, because we can move both the camera or its target. But, as I said, I'm not an animation wizard, so maybe you're right about certain animation projects not needing that. Anyway, I don't think it's good that Blender doesn't have this as a preset option.

Thanks again :)
bogdan

malCanDo
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Post by malCanDo » Tue Feb 07, 2006 7:18 pm

> An animator would never want a camera 'locked' to a target.

We use this all the time for our interactive work... it makes tracking the camera to an object extremely easy.

Having it as an optional property of the camera, without having to manually set it up, would make a lot of sense to me.

Even when using a hand-held camera with no target, the user tends to keep the focus aimed at the target object, rather than thinking of the camera as being in their hand and working out angles to rotate their wrist based on that, so it is a concept that most people would get IMO.

Mal

LeiGet
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Post by LeiGet » Wed Feb 08, 2006 5:30 am

I think he's talking about this type of camera:

Image

You see the tiny blue box that the camera is pointing to? That's the tracker. Move that to tell were the camera points.

P.S. I would also like this, even though all those guys coding deserve a break.

joeri
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Post by joeri » Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:00 pm

malCanDo wrote:> An animator would never want a camera 'locked' to a target.

We use this all the time for our interactive work... it makes tracking the camera to an object extremely easy.

Having it as an optional property of the camera, without having to manually set it up, would make a lot of sense to me.

Even when using a hand-held camera with no target, the user tends to keep the focus aimed at the target object, rather than thinking of the camera as being in their hand and working out angles to rotate their wrist based on that, so it is a concept that most people would get IMO.

Mal

Nope. A camera stands on a tripod and is pointed to the object of interest by rotation of the tripots head. Typical filmy shots are created by putting the camera on a dolly. Most animation studios even use virtual dollys to create this visual effect. Comparing a steady steady computer camera to a hand held is just silly.

No offence, but ingame camera's are the worst seen in visual expressions. Most of the time because the camera is locked to the center of a moving objects. While cameraman tent to look at the composition of the whole image and anticipate (or anti-anticipate) towards to coming action. And that is much harder by moving around some silly 3d object in the scene.
Just as you move your neck and eyes...

But I understand blender is not only used for highend 3d animation, and can see the use of a tracked camera for non-animators. Some area discriptions on this point of interest- line could also discribe (and gui) depth of field.

malCanDo
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Post by malCanDo » Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:07 pm

This is probably why it should be an option, so that silly people like me can work the way we are used to without having to force the option on others :)

joeri
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Post by joeri » Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:14 pm

malCanDo wrote:This is probably why it should be an option, so that silly people like me can work the way we are used to without having to force the option on others :)
Sure. I don't think you are silly.
I thought BogdanOancea was talking about becoming an animation master.

Tracked camera is already in blender. These requests for premade setups are boring. It is far better to understand how people can create there setups themselfs so they get independant from the developers. And can move forward. Instead of filling blender with multiple popups for special cases.
This is one of thoose things I think would fit in a more visual library system, or macro system. That way you could create this tracked camera and release it on the web as an inbuild tool.

BogdanOancea
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Post by BogdanOancea » Wed Feb 08, 2006 2:05 pm

These requests for premade setups are boring.
Man... if this is the general line of thought around here, right in the Interface & Tools forum, too bad... I don't think such a preset is silly or for silly people. :oops:
I thought BogdanOancea was talking about becoming an animation master.
Um... no, I wasn't implying that. (Feeling bad already). Indeed, 3D movies are my favourites, but being an animation master is not one of my aspirations. I just do static renderings. Nevertheless, such a targeted camera (like in LeiGet's image above) is needed in many situations that have nothing to do with animating stuff, but just with pointing the camera wherever you want, without having it tumble.

bogdan

LetterRip
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Post by LetterRip » Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:56 pm

joeri is an old timer who is a bit 'set in his ways' - think Saturday Night Live - 'in my day we had to aim the camera by rotating it by hand, and we liked it' :)

I don't think I've seen a coder respond yet, everyone seems pretty busy these days, even more so than usual.

LetterRip

ilac
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Post by ilac » Wed Feb 08, 2006 10:23 pm

BogdanOancea wrote:Nevertheless, such a targeted camera (like in LeiGet's image above) is needed in many situations that have nothing to do with animating stuff, but just with pointing the camera wherever you want, without having it tumble.

bogdan
I think you repeatedly missed the part where Joeri said this is available in blender and has been so for several years. Create an empty and track (ctrl-T) your camera to it. :wink:

joeri
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Post by joeri » Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:40 am

BogdanOancea wrote:
These requests for premade setups are boring.
Man... if this is the general line of thought around here, right in the Interface & Tools forum, too bad... I don't think such a preset is silly or for silly people. :oops:
Tsss. I thought the "But I was wondering how do you feel " ment I could express my feelings about it but I guess the line should have been "Now I want you all to agree with me"

BogdanOancea
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Post by BogdanOancea » Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:15 am

I think you repeatedly missed the part where Joeri said this is available in blender and has been so for several years. Create an empty and track (ctrl-T) your camera to it.
No, I didn't miss it. I'm using that already. (Thanks again for the tip). I just said it would be better and friendlier to have that as a preset -- a target camera readily available. At least that's my opinion. And I don't "demand" that from the developers -- I know they are already overworked. It was just a proposal and an implicit question that if somebody plans to implement that someday, even in the distant future, please tell.

Yes, everybody is entitled to an opinion, and my apologies if I sounded brash to anyone. :oops:

bogdan

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