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Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 8:24 pm
by elander
joeri wrote:The blender foundation has set some goals and non of them state to create the best (more intuitive & user-friendly) interface.
It's to make 3dcg available to the widest possible audience.
Thats the sole goal of usability.
joeri wrote:Changing interface settings is only a very small possible part of improvement.
Features are not determinat for reaching the widest possible audience if that is all you want, but usability is. With just 1/10 of the features Blender is packed with it could reach a much bigger audience like Milkshape did.

If the goal was to create an excelent modeler no mater what the learning curve is (something similar to emacs for text editors) then this would be a different argument.

Anyway Blender goals are not objective. They are driven by Ton and a core of developers and that is good because Ton and his team are visionaries and Blender would never be what it is today if they didn't strive to create their vision.

But i feel now that Blender with all its features justifies a much bigger aceptance by new users that what it has and that isn't happening and it's potential being wasted. Just throwing more great features won't change much as a great number of new users will never look at them.
That's not by vision or idiology, that's just 10 years old code that is interwoven truw all of blender and needs alot of work to refactor. Keybinding is on the todo list for 8 years and getting on top of the list soon.
I hope they give a good look at it and not just change keybindings but also do change do create a gui file format we can exchange or edit with an external api.
People will simply create (and share) their configurations and in true Darwinian fashion the best interface as decided by the users (and not the developers) will be more numerous
Leaving the issue of documentation.
Documentation is part of the gui in modern gui design so nothing is left out. The (SumOfDoc) activity is already improving the gui. I hope next they start working on the customization part. That would be cool.
OK, give us some examples then! The Blender interface is highly configurable. The buttons windows is highly configurable.
I woudn't mind doing that myself but at the moment im studying for univ exams and the exam im studying at the moment is HCI. :lol:

But i have some ideas i would like to present later as modifies gui screenshots and sketches.

Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 12:57 am
by bky1701
I think we should spend our efforts more to brain storm and come up with better ideas for the Blender interface instead of bashing it with the Maya and Max club.
More like the "every other app" stick. The thing I cannot get used to about blender is:

The 3D cursor. What does it do that can't be done in a normal way?
The axises. It needs to be MUCH more easy to click the axises and the object should NEVER move relative to the viewport...
Easier position-based movement. There are indicators in the left of the screen, why can't they be edit boxes? (There is probably a way to do this now, but with how much many people use it, it needs to be much more accessible and clear)
Also it annoys me having to use keys for moving and scaling. Nothing about what key does what, but the fact I have always used menus, and want to keep using them, even if it “isn't right”.

Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 1:58 am
by kAinStein
bky1701 wrote: The 3D cursor. What does it do that can't be done in a normal way?
You can a) create objects directly where they should be (or setting the "depth" of a vertex while laying out a patch) - no need to create them at the origin and then move them to the place they belong (Nice - if not essential - in big scenes or composed objects) and b) use it for snapping, as center for rotation, revolving, setting the pivot point where you want to have it etc. Quite handy. Why does it annoy you? It doesn't bite.

What is a normal way anyway?
The axises. It needs to be MUCH more easy to click the axises and the object should NEVER move relative to the viewport...
Errr... Pardon?
Easier position-based movement. There are indicators in the left of the screen, why can't they be edit boxes? (There is probably a way to do this now, but with how much many people use it, it needs to be much more accessible and clear)
N-Key for "numerical" (toggle button). Or, because you prefer menus, Object/Mesh -> Transform properties.

Also: CTRL, SHIFT or CTRL-SHIFT are modifiers for changing the amount of a certain transformation while performing the transformation.
Also it annoys me having to use keys for moving and scaling. Nothing about what key does what, but the fact I have always used menus, and want to keep using them, even if it “isn't right”.
You can: Object/Mesh -> Transform -> Grab/Scale/Rotate - so what's wrong with it? In addition you can use the transformation widget.

Honestly... That "annoys" you? Have you ever tried Blender? I mean: Really tried Blender? With reading the documentation and playing around with it? Or did you just open it? *shakeshishead*

Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 3:44 am
by Toon_Scheur
joined 3-july-2006.... a strong indicator thatn he's using Blender recently. :?

Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 4:55 am
by kAinStein
bky1701 wrote:The axises. It needs to be MUCH more easy to click the axises and the object should NEVER move relative to the viewport...
Tell me if I'm wrong, but I think I've figured it out what you meant (I didn't think about the manipulator because I don't use it):

Image

You can choose out of four different coordinate systems on which the manipulator widget is aligned. One of them is "View" which aligns the +Z axis to the viewport camera. You also can have them aligned to the global (world) or the local (object) coordinate system for example. The image is showing it aligned to the local coordinates.

On the clicking: Works fine here. Even doesn't matter if I'm clicking slightly off the axis. Perhaps you should aim at the arrowhead. That should be big enough. If not: Change the size or the hotspot in the preferences under the "Views & Controls" button. Don't see any problem with this one!

All a matter of knowing how! ;)
Toon_Scheur wrote:joined 3-july-2006.... a strong indicator thatn he's using Blender recently.
I know. Perhaps he should have asked for some help at http://blenderartists.org/ before complaining... ;)

Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 12:24 am
by tenebrusmke79
softwork wrote:I cannot agree with this. I think it is the opposite, Blender is getting more interest from experienced users (using other 3D programs).

I read a lot here of making Blender more Newbie friendly (standard interface, lots of pretty icons, etc, etc.). But please, don't make Blender a Newbie tool.

Blender is not a newbie tool, it is (becoming) a semi-professional tool. One of its strengths is (how odd this may seem to some of you) the interface and the speed one can model with it. That said doesn't mean there is no room for improvement, developers are allready (for some time) looking how to make the interface better.

<-snip->

Don't make Blender a Newbie Tool, but a 3D tool that makes the serious modelers/animators smile....
Sorry, I don't agree with this at all. I am a newbie (still trying to learn stuff), and making this app exclusively for experienced users is a deadly mistake on the program. I think the Blender group should make this a tool for newbies AND experienced people alike in the same program. If you don't like that, well, then don't use the program. I love Blender not only because it's free but also because it's simple to use and it's very intuitive.

Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 7:33 am
by Toon_Scheur
I've never used Poser, but I can imaged it to be newbie friendly. Kind of like dressing up Barbie.
The way Blender is now is certainly not newbie friendly! So if you think it is intuitive for a newbie, then I take my hat off for you. For those other newbies: I guess you have to pick up the manual sooner or later when you had enough of chrome balls floating over a checkered floor or a suzanne with a marble texture. That would be true too for any other 3D app I reckon.

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 4:44 am
by tenebrusmke79
Toon_Scheur wrote:I've never used Poser, but I can imaged it to be newbie friendly. Kind of like dressing up Barbie.
The way Blender is now is certainly not newbie friendly! So if you think it is intuitive for a newbie, then I take my hat off for you. For those other newbies: I guess you have to pick up the manual sooner or later when you had enough of chrome balls floating over a checkered floor or a suzanne with a marble texture. That would be true too for any other 3D app I reckon.
Well.. I am a quick study, so I learn fairly quickly, frankly, it's easy for me.. so i don't mind things.

Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 2:10 pm
by celeriac
Bollocks to 'standards'. Blender is Blender, it can do whatever it likes.