The interface, modeling, 3d editing tools, import/export, feature requests, etc
Moderators: jesterKing, stiv
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2002 4:50 pm
forcefield wrote:I think Blender is amazing, and the interface is part of that opinion. After three books and countless hours I finally have a clue what I am doing. But, that was when NaN held it and there was not time or money to consider the interface. Now Blender is open, and many eyes can look and change the code. I think it's time to consider making the interface better.
I REALLY want to change the edit mode. Vertex by vertex modeling is so hard when you keep selecting the vertexes on the opposite side (no I don't want to select and hide!).
Therefor we're implementing 'backface culling' =)
Take a look at the forum for examples.
I vote NO for changing the GUI. It's what I like about blender:
One hand on the mouse, the other on the keyboard. No endless menus and such.
I suppose there is a learning curve that has a steep beginning, but that just seems a matter of good documentation. With some tutorials I was able to learn the basic functions of the GUI withing a few hours, really.
Just my 2 cents.
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2002 10:50 am
Personally, the only thing that needs changing/improving is the button window - IMO this wasn't designed with scalability in mind - I mean, look at the amount of buttons in edit mode (F9)!!
As we start adding more tools and therefore more buttons, they'll begin fighting for space...
So, a better way to access these functions from the UI is a definate must IMHO.
- Posts: 44
- Joined: Mon Nov 04, 2002 11:53 am
As others have pointed out, the interface is daunting to new users, but appreciated by those who've got used to it. Why not have, upon starting for the first time, an option to choose between the "classic" interface, and a simplified interface for beginners, which hides the more arcane options and makes learning to use Blender a lot easier.
Personally, I'd like to see some improvements to the interface without any major changes.
...because I can!
- Site Admin
- Posts: 350
- Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 12:13 am
I'm not afraid of improving the interface. My plan is to put these in three catagories:
1. improving the current releases. (100% compatible improvements, bug fixes, feature requests)
2. working towards a 2.5 release. (feasible concepts for what's possible within the current architecture and framework. Will 'look' compatible, but might have improvements that make it different. Like moving from 1.x to 2.x)
3. concepts for Blender3. (a.k.a. NextGen Blender. Quite some improvements are just impossible, or extremely hard/ugly to hack in. Then its better to wait for a complete new architecture)
I hope we can present a 2.5 next summer! I need a good excuse to visit Siggraph again, including a booth!
- Posts: 109
- Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2002 7:08 am
i voted yes cahnge it BUT DON'T MAKE IT LOOK LIKE MAYA:twisted:
cause that is harder to figure out than blender.
when i first learnt blender(a whole of five months ago) it looked difficult but actualy it was rather easy.
the only problem i find is that the buttons have been added over time. they are in funny locations like a renovated house sometimes looks like a box has been stuck on the side
--first job reorganise current buttons and provide a mouse path or a help menu that leads to the funtions.
--second job make a learner toolbar (like in 1st page 2000) this does not cover or effect the funtionality at all. it just provides the basic funtions all in one.
that is all now have fun.
- Posts: 22
- Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2002 6:32 am
- Location: CalIfonIYA (Arnold....)
OK, I voted for change. I'm a retard when it comes to this interface - even after I bought the unofficial blender book by the cow folks - but I do think it does have some room for improvement - I particularly like the scrolling style attribute modification selection thingy that Autocad and its cousin 3DS has...you can't go wrong there.
- The Flying Monkey
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2002 8:34 pm
Having been playing with Maya PLE and Blender, I like the freedom that Blender provides, but I like the experience that Maya provides. The Maya experience really has to do with the speed and power of its menus and toolbars. The tray system is quite elegant and maximizes screenspace for modelling or animation duties. I also appreciated the ability to rapidly change between viewing panes using the spacebar. This provides for a very comfortable and efficient work environment. Blender's interface, while very useful once one gets to know it, is lacking in the friendliness department, which may turn off some new users.
But as I said, I admire, and would like to use Blender for the freedom that it provides. I feel that Blender is a great program and will continue to improve now that the sources are open, and the coding team(s) are taking suggestions of users. I look forward to the growth of Blender, but I feel the biggest hinderance to new users is the daunting look of the interface.
Thanks for reading!
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2002 6:17 am
DON'T change it. This is actually what I like best about Blender. Sure it looks very complicated when you first see it, but once you get a hang of it, you love it.
I go with nemesis, do change it!!
- Posts: 119
- Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 10:30 am
Right on Ton!
I'm with your plan!
I think cleaning the codebase is the best thing to do for "today" and I think designing a new architecture will reap untold benefits later on down the road after blender3 is released.
You could just design the architecture and the docs releasing only a kernel and API's initially and then let the coders "plug in" whatever they want. This would let new coders with interest in the project quickly get up to speed and make a contribution in the form of a tool/feature/functionality plug in.
How about doing a Siggraph fundraiser for a booth and increasing exposure, I'm ready to help out in whatever way is needed!
I know I'm jumping the gun on OpenGL2 (since it hasn't even been "officially" released, it is still in beta.) but that should probably be something to consider incorporating into blender3s' core, unless it can be implemented with minimal efficiency penalties as a rendering subsystem plug in..
I think some could emerge from blender3 with parts resembling (I said resembling not cloning.) 3DS MAXs' architecture, that would be a big plus, it would attract users and create confidence if someone said "parts of Blender 3 resemble 3DS MAX's architecure" People would get turned on by that. Of course modularity isn't exactly patented by autodesk or discreet, but look how well they made the concept work... If not to emulate certainly something to reference...
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2002 10:13 pm
I voted for change for a few reasons:
The basic interface is really nice since it is easy and fast to use. The main problem is that the basic features are not obvious. First of all the keyboard shortcuts should be apparent in the interface and there should always be a context sensitive menu that gives the user all the options for the current mode / selection. The FKEY for example is really important but you have to click through a bunch of tutorials before you get to know it and you probably forget it if you don't use blender every week.
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 8:18 pm
Minor improvements to the present interface could make it much easier to use. A drastic change is probably premature. But cleanup would help. It's OK that the interface is unusual. But it needs to be very consistent in its unusualness.
I'd previously used a version of Blender that didn't have the tool tips. It's a lot better with them, given that the interface has all those blank buttons. Little visual things like that are a big help.
For example, when an object is selected, it should show as selected in shaded mode, not just in wireframe mode. Softimage|3D does this by showing the edges of the faces for selected objects, which gives the effect of the wireframe on top of the solid.
Other little items:
Changeable numbers and text on buttons should be visually distinguishable from fixed numbers. Boldface, maybe.
Buttons which have state (can be left pushed down) should be visually distinguished from stateless (push once) buttons. A subtle border distinction would be appropriate, not a color.
Some button windows have frequently used buttons and rarely used state settings displayed with equal prominence. "View", for example, has all the rendering presets, which you don't change often, along with major buttons like "Render" and "Play". This clutters up the display. It also doesn't leave room for easy expansion in the output format. If you had to add "NTSC", "DVD", and all the HDTV settings, where would you put them?
How about a window which shows all the currently meaningful control keys as buttons? This helps users get started, and is useful when you need some obscure key and don't want to frantically page through the manual to find it.
Some basic cleanup along those lines will make the system easier to use for people who've used other animation systems, or none at all. And none of this stuff is hard.
The hard part of the interface is all in the 3D drawing, not the buttons, anyway. That's the part that really matters.
- Posts: 17
- Joined: Fri Nov 15, 2002 9:14 am
If you change the GUI to a M$-like windows interface, I will get out from the Blender scene. You can see my gallery at http://render.hu/galery.csn?alselect=194
and think about it.
Yes, this is an ultimatum.
- Posts: 80
- Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2002 4:18 am
Expanding the space bar menu and adding a hot key (as well as from the menu) that shows a context sensitive list of hot keys for the current activity (chosen from a list??) would make it much easier to learn blender, it would reduce the amount of time spent searching for tutorials and reading in the manuals for the correct hot key. But changing the interface to emulate another program??? if you like the other program so much, buy it. One of Blenders strenghts is its uncluttered interface, it would be a shame to turn it into another drag and droolers delight.
- Posts: 44
- Joined: Mon Nov 04, 2002 11:53 am
Just wanted to add that I think animats' suggestions, above, are possibly some of the best and clearest so far for improving the current interface. I'd love to see them implemented. Guess I'll have to start really concentrating on learning my coding...
...because I can!
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2002 7:25 am
I dont know how hard it could be done, or even if it is implemented already but if it could be, then a customizable interface where the ui can be changed, maybe with presets for max or maya look will be good for a lot of beginers or package migrators.
Maybe even presets of shortcuts to make them similar to other packages?
That is comming from a beginer in blender3d.
PS i really think a familair layout will entice more and more artists to migrate to blender3d. It is very practical to use, because it is free, but hard to get used to get used to the interface if u are an expert in one package already.
that's my 2 cents if it matters at all.